robert knickerbocker arizona

U seem very one sided on every case Ann Rule has ever written just as u claim she did to u. N her parents didnt want custody of the children just like the father. They hated her attitude and thought she was promiscuous and showed no sorrow or remorse. Diane has not been deemed an ongoing public threat that I am aware of. Then, they accused her of shooting her kids at close range. Knick never signed the premarital agreement and Diane never married him. Back to DD, I think she suffered some kind of mental breakdown, her account of the facts was never reliable, all the case appears murky, which points to an incompetent handling of the situation by the police and justice system. It will not make me popular, but I dont mind. She followed all the correct Parole Boardprocedures for two years with no hearing. Are we to believe that Proctors second gun was stolen with the bill and ID from the first gun that remained listed at the gun store? Thank you for presenting a side of the story & case apart from the usual narrative. If you think you would have more influence arguing for better relationships with Mexico at a Donald Trump rally in Mexico, why bother? Also, aside from her original mental state, which may or may not excuse her aloofness (doesnt prove shes a killer by the way! Click to read The Case of Liysa Northon Who Said True Crime Does not Pay? The answers to those questions do not matter anymore. Why on earth would anyone recommend leaving the kids with the grandparents? I actually do not know what really happened. They were in a difficult situation becausewithout evidence, they could notcharge her for the crime. But people never want to touch the high profile cases where the defendant is not likable. Her children were obviously more severely injuredbecause being captive in the car while a shooter aimed at them gave them less of a chance to wiggle out of the situation than an adult outside the car. I followed the trial. In one of them, he knew her name and in another one, she had answered a call and been told to meet someone. But, Diane also claimed that Robert had told her that he was planning on leaving his wife and moving to Oregon to be with her. But Diane couldnt do that. The Diane Downs case a case where a woman was convicted of shooting her three children, killing one of them, along a roadway in Springfield, Oregon became the subject of ABCs 20/20 in the episode entitled My Mothers Sin. Stephen Daniel (known as Danny), 3, Cheryl Lynn, 7, and Christie Anne, 8, were all shot multiple times in the May 19, 1983 attack. But you told Diane Downs to go ahead and get an apartment? Robert Lee Knickerbocker 2013 Robert Lee Knickerbocker, died 2013. Bear in mind, that arm consisted of two SHARP bones, cutting at nerves and muscle (1 of bone had been blown out of the arm when the bullet shattered it, leaving three jagged holes in the flesh, out of which bulged torn muscle, and two wedge shaped bones facing each other like dueling swords). In the 21st century, it's not just urns and gravestones anymore. Growing up, Diane had felt like an outsider and kids had been cruel towards her because of her real or imagined ugly duckling looks and demeanor. A prosecutor inventing a new psychiatric category in court and labeling the accused is kind of unsettling. Wrong. This is also a faster route to give the children permanency, and is far cheaper for the child welfare system that is always strained by the budget. She could have stayed on the side of the road. Knick had NOT signed the premarital agreement, but that didnt stay his pursuit of Diane, knowing she was moving 1200 miles away. CK allowed DD to drive away despite the fact she could identify him and he had a gun? Considering that the marks on the lethal bullets did not fit the bullet fingerprinting found in the rifle, this gun switcheroo was a good save for the state, but did not support the theory presented at trial either. Just before 11 P.M., Downs pulled her blood-soaked car up to the door of McKenzie-Willamette Hospital and screamed, Somebody just shot my kids! Cheryl, seven; lay dead in the front seat, and Christie, eight; and Danny, three; were sprawled in the back seat, clinging to life. The gun presented at trial being the wrong one is a fact. In fact, what investigator Tracy had written in his notes is that the heart monitor jumped because of excitement or intense fear. Get Notified when Robert Arthur Knickerbocker's info changes. I will take a screen shot of the sketch. BUT like you rightly explain, there was no real evidence of her guilt. Gregory Foote who had denied access to the children by all blood relatives and given their care over to the State, was promoted from juvenile to senior judge to preside over the trial of Diane Downs.. Just before 11 P.M., Diane Downs reportedly pulled her blood-soaked car up to the door of McKenzie-Willamette Hospital and screamed, Somebody just shot my kids!, Photo by: Diane Downs [Wikimedia Commons]. After graduation, Steven joined the Navy and Diane was sent to Pacific Coast Baptist Bible College where she failed miserably at remaining pure and chaste, not unlike most girls of her generation who rejected their strict religious upbringing. But Ann Rules utterly biased account is an insult to investigative journalism and there seems to be very reasonable doubt here. Of course buying drugs with three kids in the middle of the night from a guy like that is not the mindful thing to do, but would be more consistent as an explanation for her actions. What about the facts of the case? I go fishing with a jurors husband. There were good reasons to look at this mother, but the detective admitted on the stand that they stopped looking at anyone else after two weeks and the stranger on the road became a joke. And Steven would hunt her down anyway and charm his way back into her life. Mr. Downs must have had a bad feeling about Jagger because before trial: speculation It probably makes you feel so good. All Filters. Did CK shoot at car when DD drove away? The reason she is likely locked up is because she was diagnosed with narcissistic, histrionic and anti social personality disorder, that makes her a very dangerous person (especially since she is a murderer). Diane Downs is guilty beyond any doubt and I do not believe that her daughter was coached. If Diane was bipolar, the non-stop chatter would have been inherent to the situation. No services are scheduled at this time. I do not believe that this type of abuse would occur today. When analysing this blog, look at three statements from the blogger: Diane Downs and Alice Crummins were considered sluts The prosecutors in the case said that Diane had committed such a heinous act in the hopes of getting back together with one of her previous lovers, Robert Knickerbocker, who had made it known that he didnt want children in his life. In reality,the whole caseturned out to beno small sacrifice for Diane Downs, but it was a huge victory for the State, the media anda very lucrative deal for theQueen of crime fiction herself; Ann Rule. I wish she could get a new look. And once again, considering that she was diagnosed as bipolar, did not help her cause. Everyone in the world can believe something. The circumstances surrounding the case were not enough to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. This case needed to be examined more thoroughly, but the mob mentality didnt allow it. So not addressing the content of the blog and rambling about everything else while asking for a disclaimer is nailing it? Meaning a trial where lying or failing to disclose exculpatory evidence by prosecutors is not happening. She repeated it years later at school. Ive not seen the movie or read the book. Once again, Diane said a lot of things. Diane nowhad the title ofdangerous offender. Even if I have no doubt that Hugi loved the kids, we have to wonder why he adopted them two years later just when little Christie started saying she had no clue who shot them. A group of ladies formed a group called HELDD which stands for Help Exonerate & Liberate Diane Downs. I mention in my blog that when her adoptive dad said that she was coerced and thats why she said she did not know who shot them, that of course she was because this is what she does when under pressure. You wondered at times, which side he was working for. The fact that there was a rush to judgment, an investigation targeting only one result and a media coverage often presenting lies is very bothersome. Rule defended her right to earn a living and to tell her story. So how she behaved at the time, should not have been a factor influencing the authorities. Instead, there is blood splatter on the ceiling of the car. . You can click here to read about the case of Alice Crimmins during which the lead detective was heard telling the other cops before the bodies of the children were ever found:You take the husband, Ill take the bitch.. I do not post rude comments. Do you remember a couple of days after that, December I encourage you to read all the facts before being so sure that she was guilty or that she acted alone. At the time, among 49 prisoners denied parole, the board had given only four inmates, including Downs, a 10-year wait. Rule sued the Seattle Weekly after they published the article titled Ann Rules Sloppy Storytelling, but she lost and had to make restitution. What a terrible injustice. Related To . Moreover, it was not a suicide case, but of a woman who supposedly shot herself in the arm and her 3 children several times. I saw footage of Diane herself laughing during the re-enactment of the crime. The media keeps talking about several escapes, but there was only one. So imagine when you are troubled to begin with. Diane recanted the stories about her dad who vehemently denied them. It appeared rigged: Rigged? The gun is Def a big issue, the style of gun, whether it belonged to him or her, she Def had access to itthe child drew a picture of it, having large similarity to that gunbut it did always baffle me how she could find such a great hide for it in such a short period of time. Further: Wonder about Justice in Nation with world wide highest prisoner rate. Diane had thought that her own three kids were the reason why they werent together, and thus, apparently decided to take matters into her own hands. There are many cases where investigators jump to conclusions either because in their gut they think they know or pressure to make an arrestand i guess with all the attention this case got they gave their gut and the public what they wanted. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPLkIcSzftE&ab_channel=DianeDownsArchives. As a married man, the ball was in his court and he decided togo forit. That testimony was left unchallenged by Mr. Jagger. They should have stayed out of it instead of contributing to her revictimization. Its tiresome. As you might know, Dianes father passed away after many years of anguish over the fate of his daughter. If you had, you would clearly know that I do not claim her guilt or innocence. Evidence from a ballistics expert. But without proof, Diane couldnt implicate Steve Downs any more than she could shoot him as he violated a restraining order threatening to beat her AGAIN. And some are even contradictory: shes mentally ill, but also not mentally ill; the site owner wants to focus on pure facts, yet ignore other facts; things happened in court, but those are irrelevant to what else what also happened in court, etc. I guess Diane forgot to have that part engraved on the Unicorn. Knickerbocker, Robert C.Robert C. Knickerbocker, age 82 of Tucson, AZ, passed away on May 15, 2015 in Tucson. See All About BORN December 25, 1932 DIED May 15, 2015 LOCATION Tucson,. So should I put an addendum saying that Diane contradicted herself or was not satisfied with the sketch? Her quest for love had landed her into an unstable and loveless marriage. It may take up to 1 hour for your comment to appear on the website. During closing arguments, Fred Hugi said that the murder weapon used by Diane was a Ruger, and the state had the model number and the bill of sale. Diane was pregnant during the trial so if found not guilty, how would she have regained the love of her life? On the witness stand, the young girl was asked if she remembered who shot her. This reminds me of what a jail counselor named Rachel Roth said at the trial of Debra Milke Its my opinion that this young woman has been judged in a way that signifies something to do with how we view women in our society. She took care of herself not her children. Not hard to go there. I was raised by an evil narcissist and have not only seen this kind of behavior before, but I have seen the face of the devil and it is a look of pure evil that gives me the creeps. If you have an opinion on drugging a child to make her talk, a judge presiding over a criminal case when he was in family court and removed the children from the defendants or the forensics, ballistic, etc. If it was not such a high profile case, Diane Downs would have been paroled a long time ago: speculative, Ill stop there. She wrote to the governor several times after being dismissed coldly by Hugi and the system. The guy should have walked away from the case or from adopting them. One of the flaws was the relationship between the DA and the children. Saudi Princesses in Captivity for More Than a Thousand and One Nights Are Tweeting the Blues, Having recently done research on the Liysa Northons case which was the subject of a book written by Ann Rule titled, Some 287 errors and falsehoods were documented by Liysa and verified by official sources. And it is not like these two were white as snow. Right after the shooting, little Danny would ask the nurses, Why did the mean man shoot me? and it would be written down in the daily notes. He said all the police needed was for Diane to bear witness against her ex-husband. Caught in the act, Hugi declared that Christie only said that because she was pressed for an answer. We dont know. Diane was cooked the minute she walked in that courtroom. They are set in stone and people refuse to see it any other way. Forensics or lack thereof and blood splatter? The man you have listed as Fred Hugi is actually Dianes attorney Jim Jagger. The definition of deviant sociopath does not even exist in the DSM-HI: Downs lawyer at the time should have objected as the term was non existent. He was buried at burial place, Arizona. You cannot skip due process because of mob mentality. Alana Renee Cole, 45, remains at large; authorities say she should be considered dangerous. ""Moochie"" was a Senior at the time of his death, November 6, 1974. . I see that Downs had a parole hearing in late 2020 but I cant see the outcome. An earlier commenter wrote that it doesnt matter that the trail or the investigation was faultyWHAT !? ..it is quite possible if she was tried in todays world, with the evidence they hadquite possible it would of went differentlywe been living in a society that pretty much demand 100% pure forensic evidence provenprobably over 10 years or longer, people expect trials to be that of a law and order TV show..I cant say thats a bad thing, or makes what happened in the 80s on back bad. I am not sure of the exact timing of Dianes accusations but the Downs family did not only include the grandparents and they were never considered even before this nonsense. I am not sure. And according to the law, she should have been released by now, independently of what she says or not. And the fact that Tracy wrote in his notes that Christies reaction could have been excitement to see her mom but they decided to only mention extreme fear? (Appendix 3). Yes, I had to go and sign the lease, yes, sir. And that Ann Rule took advantage of the situation to sell her book. The DA adopting the children is an integral part of this and definitely needs to be included in the blog. Steve also told police that Diane was still obsessed with her ex-lover Robert Knickerbocker, who had eventually put an end to their torrid love affair. Either way he could NOT have seen who shot him unless he has eyes in the back of his head. Diane didnt ask Knick to leave his wife. Not that it matters, your opinion is about the case and not subject to geography. He hired Jim Jagger on the 1st of June 1983, 11 days after the shooting. Mainly because the courts have to give every chance possible and all the services necessary to the bio family to try to preserve the relationship. Let me tell you, it wasnt just the investigators and the prosecution that didnt believe herwe, Oregonians, (who ACTUALLY live here and watched what was happening) believe she is guilty. My opposition to movies about true crime stories is unshakable. Resides in Scottsdale, AZ. The fact that the DA adopted the children, since it was after the trial, is more of a gray area. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. How ironic. Just similar stuff.and that I guess, makes it easy for me to see how that song could of fueled her up.never underestimate the power if a song..what feels intense and exciting to you, may not to another, but shoot, anytime I hear pink floyd run like hell.takes me right back 1991 in the heat of my chase..for me, I got the answers I wanted from 89 when my friend said that about the Duran song and it involved in that case. Even if I have no doubt that Hugi loved the kids, we have to wonder why he adopted them two years later just when little Christie started saying she had no clue who shot them. she chose to stay with Manson and his misfits. Robert Knickerbocker in Phoenix, AZ Robert Knickerbocker may also have lived outside of Phoenix, such as Carefree and Scottsdale. The bitches own daughter identified Downs as the shooter. The next morning Diane appeared in the courtroom with a police report written by Detective Pond a year earlier, in which Ms. Patterson was sure Diane had gone nowhere near the bathroom the night of the shooting (Appendix 62). 1) Gunshot residue/blood splatter. View their profile including current address, phone number 520-293-XXXX, background check reports, and property record on Whitepages, the most trusted online directory. According to Oregon law, this would have to be supported by a psychiatrists report or a Wardens letter and Diane provided both. I also grew up in as time of the most infamous case in Australias judicial history: Lindy Chamberlain and the dingo stole my baby. It was kind of interesting to hear Mossimo Giannullis lawyer pleading to have his client sent home or put in general population because his mental health suffered drastically in solitary confinement because of covid after 56 consecutive days in solitary. Someone said to me that any of us, if scrutinized under a microscope, would come out looking pretty bad. That is not a quick process and is very invasive to a familys privacy. Christie said that her mother had pulled the car over on the dark, isolated road, retrieved something from the trunk of the car, and started shooting at her and her siblings. I am quite bothered by what happened in that courtroom and in the media. Clickhere to read about faulty ballistics.. I dont know the woman. This case certainly had its share of circumstantial evidence. Its a rather large part of the story. Hugi did not want that. Whenever your shoot a gun that many times and that close to the victims, theres going to be blood and powder residues. This coercion came to Dianes attention in January 1989 (Appendix 39). Page 41 of case history. It could be argued that he developed a relationship with the children and genuinely wanted them to join his family. http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v09/n364/a03.html // Prison-happy U.S. must reconsider use of mercy; Carol S. Steiker, professor at Harvard Law School, Sep. 10, 2008 , http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/20080910_Prison-happy_U_S__must_reconsider_use_of_mercy.html // US Prison Population Soars to 2.3Mln People at Annual Cost of $7Bln The US prison population has soared to 2.3 million people costing the government more than $7 billion per year. They never found the gun and she showed no signs of having fired one. Her parents Willadene and Wes were old school Baptist parents who raised her under strict guidelines without much warmth but complete devotion. College: SOUTHERN METHODIST UNIVERSITY. I dont understand how the family court managed to isolate 2 severely traumatized and grievously injured children from their entire family. Are you still taking comments by email? Now she claims she was dating an FBI agent at the time, was holding some top secret pictures for him, and she was on the road to meet someone to pass them off, at the instruction of her FBI boyfriend. The definition of deviant sociopath does not even exist in the DSM-HI, which is the official psychiatric diagnostic manual. The blog I read is all about the improprieties and flat out misconduct in Dianes trial (and the way Ann Rule profited off of it with fiction). You have a photo of Diane before the parole board. Diane Downs is no exception. I am not one sided. Dianes motive was simple, she wanted to remove her kids from the way so that she could be with Robert. Q. Moreover, he apparently told her that he did not want children and this statement alone would seal Dianes fate. And other inmates were released with worst backgrounds. The only reason they kept her in prison even if she had all the right documentation and support, is because she is high profile. Postal Service to be closer to her parents. She is still in prison. Even if they say that she did not get involved in rehabilitation programs, she did participate, but obviously did not admit to killing her daughter and injuring the others. But you sure did comment like a true asshole, huh? But, as would be the case years later with both Stuart and Smith, the shocking truth eventually came to light that Diane Downs had allegedly lied about the deadly attack on her children. Many individuals associated with the the child welfare system, for one reason or another, choose to adopt children. Great blog post, thank you. Christies response: My mom.. The scene described in Small Sacrifices with little Christie hooked up to a machine and her pulse accelerates because she is terrified ofher mother is doubtful and subject to interpretation. The parole board in Oregon was asking to provide reasonable cause to show she was not a danger to society and it had to be supported by a psychiatrists report or a Wardens letter and Downs provided both. Not unlike Diane, Alice did not want to share her pain in public. This video of Jagger absolutely looks like the photo that you find on search engines for Fred Hugi. A reader told me that I should have a website with all the comments. For all my life I have thought I was not that smart, but now I can tell myself, hey cheer up could be worse. Steve knew that Diane had multiple affairs, and that Danny was not his biological son, and he and Diane divorced in 1980. Christie was born in October of 1974 and Cheryl Lynn in January of 1976. Mind: Wrongful convicted. AGE 70s Robert W Knickerbocker Woodlawn, TN Aliases Robert W Knickerbocker Bocker Robert W Knickerbocke Phone Number I say these things if I were on the jury. The best poems for funerals, memorial services., and cards. Blood spatter is not an exact science, and is interpreted differently by experts. Shes guilty. (Yes in the 1980s a ten yr like myself was not as mature as say todays 10 yr olds. Additionally, homicide or assault victims shot by someone else can test positive for GSR. An attractive woman whose two children were killed in mysterious circumstances and the cops decided to go after her. Do not take this so personally. Some basic help and starters when you have to write a tribute to someone you love. We found 5 phone numbers and email addresses. It was the story of two troubled young souls trying to survive without a safety net. BUT the babies were put in Foster Care before any allegations were made Family has defended and backed Diane for her Innocence clearly from day one The state took them away from all family because family was and is the enemy Statistics for all 12 Robert Knickerbocker results: 77 yrs AVERAGE AGE 29% are in their 100s, while the average age is 77. You mention her youngest daughter, and how Ann made sure she only heard negative information about Diane.. UNLOCK PROFILE. Considering that the daughter she murdered will never get a second chance, it will never be long enough unless its for her entire life. Downs tried to defend herself against the allegations and said, "Why would I have taken my kids to the hospital? Diane changed her story about the stranger on the road. 6. I have no idea how the social workers and county attorneys justified doing their due diligence in preserving the family (mandated by law) when they were in court. By the way, Dianes parents mourn the loss of their grandchildren to this day. This site is provided as a service of SCI Shared Resources, LLC. It seems that the Downs were totally ignored. Ann Rule promotes her books as true crime stories so to this day, viewers believe that the book and the movie titled Small Sacrificesdocument the true story of the Diane Downs case; in fact, it is a mix bag of truth, falsehoods, interpretation and plain fiction. Barry Sheck and bis crew of investigators should get involved. She could not have been shot twice in the back while sitting up and have the bullet pierce her body to end up under the floorboard of the passenger side. Shes where she belongs. Dianes injury had to be quite painful and shewas in shockwhile driving to the hospital and accompanying the detectives to the crime scene. And of course, she added her own brand of paranoia, which is to be expected considering her personality disorder and what she went through. She (Diane) managed to jump in the car after getting shot in the arm. If you want to defend Diane Downs, more power to you. So it would be logical to conclude that it would have left residues if anyone had shot at least 6 times. Lived In Clarksville TN, Bountiful UT, Gilbert AZ, . Will Cheryl ever be let out of her grave? I had visited Dr. Billings site several times and it is too bad that it was removed. So appropriate! To listen to Christies taped conversation, click below. Plus, Diane could have never cleaned her clothes and her hair to remove blood and gun powder. The lack of balance and objectivity. The powers that be knew they had nothing on Diane so Christie became their sacrificial lamb. Top 3 Results for Robert Knickerbocker in AZ 1 The best result we found for your search is Robert Knickerbocker age 60s in Phoenix, AZ in the Garfield neighborhood. Surely before Diane downs, there were other mothers who killed their kids..or allegedly did, however in 83 and 84 it made national news, nothing quite like it had come across the media world, which during that decade was really skyrocketing in sensationalismI believe is where it started, becoming less news and more entertainment.